Jane Leeves in Murder She Wrote

[Bobcat]

In a previous thread I mentioned that you never know who'll pop up as a
guest star in "Murder, She Wrote", Angela Lansbury's TV series from the
1980s and 90s. I watched another ep last night, aptly titled "It Runs
in the Family". In it Angela doesn't play American writer-turned sleuth
Jessica Fletcher, but her English cousin Emma McGill, a retired music
hall star. Emma visits Geoffrey Constable, an old flame who's now a
wealthy Viscount, at his estate. He's carried the torch for Emma all
these years, and now he pops the big question to Emma. But before she
can accept he's murdered, and enter a police inspector played by
Anthony Newley, who accuses Emma of the deed. For Frasierites, the
greatest fun is the arrival of a very young Jane Leeves (this ep is
from 1987) playing Gwen Petrie, a male guest's fetching arm candy. Her
authentic English accent fits beautifully into the plot - and so does
Angela Lansbury's chance to sing a Jerome Kern ditty, "Spoon With Me"
in that wonderful trained stage voice. Lotsa fun.

[Starword]

Post by Bobcat
In a previous thread I mentioned that you never know who'll pop up as a
guest star in "Murder, She Wrote", Angela Lansbury's TV series from the
1980s and 90s. I watched another ep last night, aptly titled "It Runs
in the Family". In it Angela doesn't play American writer-turned sleuth
Jessica Fletcher, but her English cousin Emma McGill, a retired music
hall star. Emma visits Geoffrey Constable, an old flame who's now a
wealthy Viscount, at his estate. He's carried the torch for Emma all
these years, and now he pops the big question to Emma. But before she
can accept he's murdered, and enter a police inspector played by
Anthony Newley, who accuses Emma of the deed. For Frasierites, the
greatest fun is the arrival of a very young Jane Leeves (this ep is
from 1987) playing Gwen Petrie, a male guest's fetching arm candy. Her
authentic English accent fits beautifully into the plot - and so does
Angela Lansbury's chance to sing a Jerome Kern ditty, "Spoon With Me"
in that wonderful trained stage voice. Lotsa fun.

Wow. I don't recall this ep. at all. I must've missed it somehow. Errrgggg!
You're getting me to think about ordering the set.

Nat
(add sbc before global to email)

[Bobcat]

Post by Starword

Post by Bobcat
In a previous thread I mentioned that you never know who'll pop up as a
guest star in "Murder, She Wrote", Angela Lansbury's TV series from the
1980s and 90s. I watched another ep last night, aptly titled "It Runs
in the Family". In it Angela doesn't play American writer-turned sleuth
Jessica Fletcher, but her English cousin Emma McGill, a retired music
hall star. Emma visits Geoffrey Constable, an old flame who's now a
wealthy Viscount, at his estate. He's carried the torch for Emma all
these years, and now he pops the big question to Emma. But before she
can accept he's murdered, and enter a police inspector played by
Anthony Newley, who accuses Emma of the deed. For Frasierites, the
greatest fun is the arrival of a very young Jane Leeves (this ep is
from 1987) playing Gwen Petrie, a male guest's fetching arm candy. Her
authentic English accent fits beautifully into the plot - and so does
Angela Lansbury's chance to sing a Jerome Kern ditty, "Spoon With Me"
in that wonderful trained stage voice. Lotsa fun.

Wow. I don't recall this ep. at all. I must've missed it somehow. Errrgggg!
You're getting me to think about ordering the set.
Nat

If you do, it's in season 4, on sale now. BTW in another burst of
Hollywood stupidity, Angela performed "Spoon With Me" in the 1946 MGM
movie "Till the Clouds Roll By" - but the producers dubbed in another
singer's voice! And that's even though she sang "Goodbye, Little Yellow
Bird" beautfully in another MGM movie, "The Picture of Dorian Gray"
starring Hurd Hatfield. Angela as Emma also reprised "Yellow Bird" in
"Sing a Song of Murder" another "Murder She Wrote" episode (It's in the
second season, Nat, in case you want to get it too!) Shades of Audrey
Hepburn mouthing the singing of Marni Nixon in the movie version of "My
Fair Lady", instead of the rightful heiress to the role of Eliza
Doolittle, Julie Andrews. Sheesh!

[Starword]

Post by Bobcat

Post by Starword
Wow. I don't recall this ep. at all. I must've missed it somehow. Errrgggg!
You're getting me to think about ordering the set.

If you do, it's in season 4, on sale now. BTW in another burst of
Hollywood stupidity, Angela performed "Spoon With Me" in the 1946 MGM
movie "Till the Clouds Roll By" - but the producers dubbed in another
singer's voice! And that's even though she sang "Goodbye, Little Yellow
Bird" beautfully in another MGM movie, "The Picture of Dorian Gray"
starring Hurd Hatfield. Angela as Emma also reprised "Yellow Bird" in
"Sing a Song of Murder" another "Murder She Wrote" episode (It's in the
second season, Nat, in case you want to get it too!)

Thanks for the info, Bob. I wonder if it's available on Netflix...I'm tired
of buying things when I only want to watch one time really, and there's a
storage space issue, too. I'll look into it.

Post by Bobcat
Shades of Audrey
Hepburn mouthing the singing of Marni Nixon in the movie version of "My
Fair Lady", instead of the rightful heiress to the role of Eliza
Doolittle, Julie Andrews. Sheesh!

I love Audrey Hepburn, but I agree that Julie Andrews would've been perfect
as Eliza Doolittle, and probably a better fit all around. Too, I also think
it's always an advantage to have someone do his/her own singing where it's
required. I feel even more strongly about Julie Andrews as Eliza after
seeing Mary Poppins again a couple of weeks ago. She was "A Practically
Perfect Person in Every Way" (how she measured up on the Mary Poppins tape
measure <g>).

Nat "who imagines Julie Andrews probably still is pretty damn good"
(add sbc before global to email)

[Bobcat]

Post by Starword

Post by Bobcat
Shades of Audrey
Hepburn mouthing the singing of Marni Nixon in the movie version of "My
Fair Lady", instead of the rightful heiress to the role of Eliza
Doolittle, Julie Andrews. Sheesh!

I love Audrey Hepburn, but I agree that Julie Andrews would've been perfect
as Eliza Doolittle, and probably a better fit all around. Too, I also think
it's always an advantage to have someone do his/her own singing where it's
required. I feel even more strongly about Julie Andrews as Eliza after
seeing Mary Poppins again a couple of weeks ago. She was "A Practically
Perfect Person in Every Way" (how she measured up on the Mary Poppins tape
measure <g>).
Nat "who imagines Julie Andrews probably still is pretty damn good"

Indeed! Too bad about the ailment that prevents her from singing any
more - what a loss. As for her Eliza Doolittle, Julie was perfect for
the part on Broadway, being English and a trained singer, but it wasn't
easy on her. There's an often-told backstage story that's enough to
dissuade anyone from thinking that Andrews was an overnight success. I
seems "My Fair Lady"s producer Moss Hart mercilessly drilled her for 48
hours to help her get her lines, songs and dialect in proper working
order. But she was game for it, and as they say, the rest is history. I
can't think of anyone else in the role of Eliza, just as I can't as her
in the Mary Poppins movie role. Some performers just pop to mind the
minute you think of a film - Yul Brynner in "The King and I", Anthony
Quinn in "Zorba the Greek", Joel Grey in "Cabaret", etc.

[manitou]

Post by Bobcat
Indeed! Too bad about the ailment that prevents her from singing any
more - what a loss. As for her Eliza Doolittle, Julie was perfect for
the part on Broadway, being English and a trained singer, but it wasn't
easy on her. There's an often-told backstage story that's enough to
dissuade anyone from thinking that Andrews was an overnight success. I
seems "My Fair Lady"s producer Moss Hart mercilessly drilled her for 48
hours to help her get her lines, songs and dialect in proper working
order. But she was game for it, and as they say, the rest is history.

In fact, Andrews came close to being fired from the original production
of "MFL" because her acting was so limited (she had worked in English
vaudeville since childhood, but had little training or experience as a
dramatic actress). The producers only agreed to the intensive coaching
with Moss Hart because of her singing voice which they realized was
exceptional.

One of the reasons Audrey Hepburn was chosen for the movie was her
obvious superior acting capability and, by 1963, very solid CV for both
drama and comedy. Major chunks of Shaw's "Pygmalion", cut for the
stage musical, were restored for the three-hour 70mm roadshow movie.
IMO Hepburns' acting was magnificent, including even her cockney
dialect, for which Warner Bros hired the same coach who'd worked with
Andrews almost a decade earlier for the B'way production.

The problem with dubbing most of Hepburn's singing was simply that
Marni Nixon was a horrendous mismatch for Hepburn's speaking voice and,
to add insult to injury, Nixon's overall style of singing was
1920s/30s/40s American operetta which also was wrong for "MFL" ---
stage or screen. I still remember cringing in horror the first time I
saw "MFL" in Toronto more than forty years ago when Nixon's voice took
over at certain points.

I don't honestly know how a director as fastidious as George Cukor and
a music supervisor as sophisticated as Andr� Previn could have allowed
this to happen. A week or two of auditions in New York, Los Angeles
and London could have discovered a better singing double. Since
Hepburn's voice was fairly rich and plummy and since the songs were
composed for a high-range soprano, what was required was a
mezzo-soprano with a strong high range. Certainly not easy to find,
but also far from impossible. And they probably could have used more
of Hepburn's own singing than they did: she did most of "Just You
Woyt, 'enry 'iggins..., just you woyt...." herself and this came of
exceptionally well.

Nixon's voice had been a good match for both Deborah Kerr ("King and
I") and Natalie Wood ("West Side Story"), and I have no problem with
her work on those films. Similarly, in "The Sound Of Music",
Christopher Plummer was dubbed by Bill Lee (husband of one of the
singing nuns in the film) whose voice was a fine timbre match. Even in
"Valley Of The Dolls", a generally mediocre movie, the dubbing for
Susan Hayward and Patty Duke was done by singers whose voices matched
these ladies' speaking voices. For many years I mistakenly believed
Hayward and Duke did their own singing for the film.

In the end, though, I'd have to say the movie Eliza was --- literally
--- impossible to cast: a very demanding dramatic role with about a
dozen demanding songs. It's as if Scarlett O'Hara had been required to
sing numerous operatic arias in "Gone With The Wind".







Charles

[Bobcat]

Post by manitou

Post by Bobcat
Indeed! Too bad about the ailment that prevents her from singing any
more - what a loss. As for her Eliza Doolittle, Julie was perfect for
the part on Broadway, being English and a trained singer, but it wasn't
easy on her. There's an often-told backstage story that's enough to
dissuade anyone from thinking that Andrews was an overnight success. I
seems "My Fair Lady"s producer Moss Hart mercilessly drilled her for 48
hours to help her get her lines, songs and dialect in proper working
order. But she was game for it, and as they say, the rest is history.

In fact, Andrews came close to being fired from the original production
of "MFL" because her acting was so limited (she had worked in English
vaudeville since childhood, but had little training or experience as a
dramatic actress). The producers only agreed to the intensive coaching
with Moss Hart because of her singing voice which they realized was
exceptional.
One of the reasons Audrey Hepburn was chosen for the movie was her
obvious superior acting capability and, by 1963, very solid CV for both
drama and comedy. Major chunks of Shaw's "Pygmalion", cut for the
stage musical, were restored for the three-hour 70mm roadshow movie.
IMO Hepburns' acting was magnificent, including even her cockney
dialect, for which Warner Bros hired the same coach who'd worked with
Andrews almost a decade earlier for the B'way production.
The problem with dubbing most of Hepburn's singing was simply that
Marni Nixon was a horrendous mismatch for Hepburn's speaking voice and,
to add insult to injury, Nixon's overall style of singing was
1920s/30s/40s American operetta which also was wrong for "MFL" ---
stage or screen. I still remember cringing in horror the first time I
saw "MFL" in Toronto more than forty years ago when Nixon's voice took
over at certain points.
I don't honestly know how a director as fastidious as George Cukor and
a music supervisor as sophisticated as André Previn could have allowed
this to happen. A week or two of auditions in New York, Los Angeles
and London could have discovered a better singing double. Since
Hepburn's voice was fairly rich and plummy and since the songs were
composed for a high-range soprano, what was required was a
mezzo-soprano with a strong high range. Certainly not easy to find,
but also far from impossible. And they probably could have used more
of Hepburn's own singing than they did: she did most of "Just You
Woyt, 'enry 'iggins..., just you woyt...." herself and this came of
exceptionally well.
Nixon's voice had been a good match for both Deborah Kerr ("King and
I") and Natalie Wood ("West Side Story"), and I have no problem with
her work on those films. Similarly, in "The Sound Of Music",
Christopher Plummer was dubbed by Bill Lee (husband of one of the
singing nuns in the film) whose voice was a fine timbre match. Even in
"Valley Of The Dolls", a generally mediocre movie, the dubbing for
Susan Hayward and Patty Duke was done by singers whose voices matched
these ladies' speaking voices. For many years I mistakenly believed
Hayward and Duke did their own singing for the film.
In the end, though, I'd have to say the movie Eliza was --- literally
--- impossible to cast: a very demanding dramatic role with about a
dozen demanding songs. It's as if Scarlett O'Hara had been required to
sing numerous operatic arias in "Gone With The Wind".
Charles

A very interesting elaboration, Charles - thanks for it. I've always
been a great fan of Audrey Hepburn, both as an actress and as a
humanitarian. I loved her in Sabrina, playing opposite Humphrey Bogart
in an unusual but IMO successful casting departure for him. When the
movie came out in 1954, Bosley Crowther said in his New York Times
review: "...he is incredibly adroit as the strong-willed aristocrat of
business who finally chips when he crashes with true love. And the
skill with which this old rock-ribbed actor blends the gags with the
arch duplicities with a manly manner of melting is one of the
incalculable joys of this show."

[Starword]

"manitou" wrote:
One of the reasons Audrey Hepburn was chosen for the movie was her
obvious superior acting capability and, by 1963, very solid CV for both
drama and comedy.<snip>

In the end, though, I'd have to say the movie Eliza was --- literally
--- impossible to cast: a very demanding dramatic role with about a
dozen demanding songs. It's as if Scarlett O'Hara had been required to
sing numerous operatic arias in "Gone With The Wind".<snip>

As always, Charles, a fascinating post that's highly educational from your
unique and learned perspective. Your insights into the nitty-gritty of how
these classic oldies were put together, cast and how they worked and how
they flopped is spot on. Usually, though, it's the little nuances I would
never have thought of myself, but once you illuminate them, it all makes
perfect sense. I see it, totally as if I'd always known it.

But the best part of this post of yours is you've given me inspiration for
another one of my innovative project ideas: Gone With the Wind: the Musical.
A stage production for Broadway is what I have in mind. I think it would be
brilliant (though you'd probably have to cut it down considerably, but even
so...). What do you think?

Now, here's the fun part--and you're so great at this game, Charles!--who do
we cast? Anyone else is welcome to join in!

I'm taking a think on it and will be back later w/ my own ideas. ; )

Nat
(add sbc before global to email)

[manitou]

Post by manitou
One of the reasons Audrey Hepburn was chosen for the movie was her
obvious superior acting capability and, by 1963, very solid CV for both
drama and comedy.<snip>
In the end, though, I'd have to say the movie Eliza was --- literally
--- impossible to cast: a very demanding dramatic role with about a
dozen demanding songs. It's as if Scarlett O'Hara had been required to
sing numerous operatic arias in "Gone With The Wind".<snip>
As always, Charles, a fascinating post that's highly educational from your
unique and learned perspective. Your insights into the nitty-gritty of how
these classic oldies were put together, cast and how they worked and how
they flopped is spot on. Usually, though, it's the little nuances I would
never have thought of myself, but once you illuminate them, it all makes
perfect sense. I see it, totally as if I'd always known it.
But the best part of this post of yours is you've given me inspiration for
another one of my innovative project ideas: Gone With the Wind: the Musical.
A stage production for Broadway is what I have in mind. I think it would be
brilliant (though you'd probably have to cut it down considerably, but even
so...). What do you think?
Now, here's the fun part--and you're so great at this game, Charles!--who do
we cast? Anyone else is welcome to join in!
I'm taking a think on it and will be back later w/ my own ideas. ; )

Nat,

Believe it or not, back in the earlier 70s a musical version of "GWTW"
was produced in London, IIRC, titled "Scarlett!", and starred June
Ritchie (who reviewers noted bore a slight resemblance to Vivien
Leigh). It did quite well, though obviously never became a mega-hit.
I can't recall if it was done in New York or not. I have vague
recollections of a short lived B'way version some years later, but
don't really remember.

Considering the trauma of getting Margaret Mitchell's novel into a
movie script, I sure wouldn't envy writers (or directors, or designers)
trying to turn it into a stage musical!

I suppose anything's possible, but as you note, the real challenge
would be casting, and considering that such a show might be in
pre-production for more than just a few years, the main roles might
well go to singer/actors who are totally unknown at this time.

In fact, it's known that David Selznick wanted a "fresh face" to play
Scarlett, but most of the younger actresses he tested (eg, Susan
Hayward, Lana Turner [unknown teenagers at the time]) were too
inexperienced and unskilled. And so he went back to testing more
experienced actresses, none of whom seemed quite right, though it
appears Paulette Goddard would have been cast, had Vivien Leigh not
materialized at literally the eleventh hour (it was circa midnight,
when Selznick's brother, Myron [Laurence Olivier's American agent],
brought Leigh and Olivier to the backlot filming for the burning of
Atlanta).

He had seen one or two of Vivien Leigh's early British films, but was
unimpressed until he met her in person. Her UK accent tended to sound
thin, but coaching for a Southern accent helped make her voice richer.
And The Hollywood hair and makeup people really knew how to capitalize
on her looks, in a way that the Brits didn't. And at age 25, VL had
sufficient and varied stage and film acting experience to tackle a
large movie role. Plus, she was still young enough to be
non-ridiculous playing Scarlett as a teenager at the start of the
movie, but sufficiently poised to play the more mature, jaded woman
later on.

Of course, a huge element of luck was at work here, for both Selznick
and Leigh.

Perhaps Andrew Lloyd Weber (who likes to work on a big scale) has
thought about a musical "GWTW" --- maybe an Asian version titled "Miss
Atlanta!".

Charles

[Starword]

Post by manitou
Believe it or not, back in the earlier 70s a musical version of "GWTW"
was produced in London, IIRC, titled "Scarlett!", and starred June
Ritchie (who reviewers noted bore a slight resemblance to Vivien
Leigh). It did quite well, though obviously never became a mega-hit.
I can't recall if it was done in New York or not. I have vague
recollections of a short lived B'way version some years later, but
don't really remember.

Now that you mention this, I guess I do recall this show. No doubt that's
what put the idea in my head, and I remembered it subconsciously. Ah
well...back to the drawing board! ; )

Post by manitou
Considering the trauma of getting Margaret Mitchell's novel into a
movie script, I sure wouldn't envy writers (or directors, or designers)
trying to turn it into a stage musical!

Yeah, that would be a project all right!

Post by manitou
I suppose anything's possible, but as you note, the real challenge
would be casting, and considering that such a show might be in
pre-production for more than just a few years, the main roles might
well go to singer/actors who are totally unknown at this time.

You'll probably think it silly, but I was imagining Katherine McPhee in the
title role...she's the singer who won the #2 slot on American Idol last
season. She has a fabulous voice and I was struck instantly when I saw her
by her fair resemblance to Vivien Leigh when the latter made GWTW. Not so
crazy as you might imagine, casting the runner-up from a pop music TV
contest in a starring Broadway role....Jennifer Hudson, a contestant from 2
seasons ago who's actually from Chicago is in a starring role in "Dream
Girls", the Broadway show made into a movie that's opening next weekend, I
believe. I saw a review of it this weekend and people are saying JH is a
natural for an Oscar nomination. Several other former AI contestants have
done successful (or less so) runs on Broadway and on the dinner theater
circuit. I think Kat could pull off Scarlett.

And laugh at me if you will, but I really mean it when I say I think David
Hyde Pierce could be a fabulous Ashley Wilkes. I don't think he's too old
for it, and we know he can sing. Maybe I think of him because he's always
reminded me a bit of Leslie Howard.

Post by manitou
In fact, it's known that David Selznick wanted a "fresh face" to play
Scarlett, but most of the younger actresses he tested (eg, Susan
Hayward, Lana Turner [unknown teenagers at the time]) were too
inexperienced and unskilled. And so he went back to testing more
experienced actresses, none of whom seemed quite right, though it
appears Paulette Goddard would have been cast, had Vivien Leigh not
materialized at literally the eleventh hour (it was circa midnight,
when Selznick's brother, Myron [Laurence Olivier's American agent],
brought Leigh and Olivier to the backlot filming for the burning of
Atlanta).

Yes, it's a famous story---possibly the most famous female casting story in
Hollywood history---and seeing Vivien Leigh in the part, it's impossible to
imagine what the film would've been w/ any of the others originally
considered. I remember reading also that Carole Lombard begged to get a
screen test as Scarlett, so eager she was to play opposite her husband in a
film she sensed intuitively was bound for glory. But she was never even
tested. She was deeply disappointed, but had to acknowledge, once the first
finished cut was screened for VIPs connected to the studio, that VL was
unmatchedly brilliant in the role. I also read that Clark Gable had grave
misgivings after the scene was shot in which he reacts to learning that
Scarlett miscarried after falling down the stairs in her scuffle with him w/
a full shot of his face w/ tears streaming, as per Fleming's direction. He
allowed the shot, then begged to redo it later, convinced his macho persona
w/ fans would be undermined to his ruin if fans saw Gable cry on camera over
a miscarriage (but of course it was so much more than that). Everyone on the
set assured him his scene w/ silent tears was his best work in the entire
film and would move his audience climatically, but his trepidation wouldn't
abate. Fleming let him look at the rushes and he saw how everyone present
was moved to tears as well. Lombarde was present as well and told him he was
a fool if he pressed for a tearless retake and if he failed to see how a
leading man tough guy with a sensitive soul is the perfect romantic hero to
American movie fans--especially the ladies.

I seem to recall reading that, in fact, that scene was the first time in
Hollywood history that a leading man was allowed to show tears to his
audience.

Post by manitou
He had seen one or two of Vivien Leigh's early British films, but was
unimpressed until he met her in person. Her UK accent tended to sound
thin, but coaching for a Southern accent helped make her voice richer.
And The Hollywood hair and makeup people really knew how to capitalize
on her looks, in a way that the Brits didn't. And at age 25, VL had
sufficient and varied stage and film acting experience to tackle a
large movie role. Plus, she was still young enough to be
non-ridiculous playing Scarlett as a teenager at the start of the
movie, but sufficiently poised to play the more mature, jaded woman
later on.

ICAM w/ everything you say here...she was the perfect Scarlett, and how
ironic the quintessential Southern Belle was found in America's neighbor
across the pond, but yes, her voice w/ a Southern accent was enhanced and
utterly convincing. Not surprising she was thought of immediately for the
role of Blanche Dubois in the screen adaptation of Streetcar Named Desire.
Amazing too how natural she looked in a blonde wig.

Post by manitou
Of course, a huge element of luck was at work here, for both Selznick
and Leigh.

Absolutely. Just as we talked about in the Frasier discussion, it's a kind
of magic that comes together, a great deal of it by pure luck, when
something really amazing and unforgettable is born.

Btw...I remember reading somewhere that when the screenplay for "Casablanca"
(which, btw, I also think could lend itself very naturally to a brilliant
musical stage play) was bought by (was it MGM?), and casting was first
pondered, a first suggestion was Ronald Reagan in the lead role. A minor
starlett too was considered as Ilsa. The title was also
different...something totally unmemorable. How sad to imagine a world
lacking the gift of this classic, timeless gem for generations to come to
savor. In addition to a crackling script and intuitively flawless direction
by Michael Curtiz, spot-on casting to the very last character made this film
what it is.

Post by manitou
Perhaps Andrew Lloyd Weber (who likes to work on a big scale) has
thought about a musical "GWTW" --- maybe an Asian version titled "Miss
Atlanta!".

LOL! How about "While Atlanta Burned"?

Nat
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